My young adult
years were greatly influenced by my youth minister, my Christian higher
education, my BSU director, my parents, James Dobson and Focus on the Family, Bill
Gothard and the Institute of Basic Youth Conflicts, early contemporary music,
Continental Ministries, St. John Medical Center psychiatric units where I
worked as a counselor, pastors I served under, and probably most significantly
the churches I served in. And it’s taken me fifty years to realize that not
every one of those influences were always good or right…or right for me.
I've questioned,
pondered about, and in general wrestled with many ideas and beliefs as I stepped
back from the expectations of the American church and my early influences. There are some things that I simply asked,
"Why,” saw the reason, then thought, "Oh, ok," and nothing
changed. Some things I've always had a check in my spirit about but refused to
question because, well, it just wasn't the thing to question growing up in a
conservative evangelical denomination, and then as a minister in the same. Yet
other things popped into my horizon after my ministerial exodus that I simply
couldn't avoid dealing with and coming to a new understanding about.
Here’s a list off the top of my head of some of these
things:
School prayer.
Divorce.
The words of Christian
teachers, preachers and authors.
The apostle
Paul.
Public prayer.
The Free
Grace/Hyper-Grace movement and legalism.
Being vs. doing.
Inerrancy,
infallibility and literal belief of the Bible.
Homosexuality.
Church
leadership.
Politics and the
church.
Worship and
worship services.
Serving in the
church.
I’m sure this list
is incomplete and will grow with time. But it gives you a peek into some of the
arenas I’ve journeyed through.
No, I have not
turned my back on my faith, or my God. I simply believe that only bullheaded,
stubborn, hard-hearted fearful people are afraid to examine their hearts, their
past, their histories, their influences, their beliefs, and change if God leads
them to do so.
Periodically I’ll
take time to wander through each of these questionings. I hope I don’t bore
you, and I hope it causes you to come to a better understanding and a closer
relationship with our loving God.
This is an open post, so anyone can write. If you do share thoughts, questions, dialogue, PLEASE PUT YOUR NAME at the end of your comments. (You'll have to select "Anonymous" on the pull down menu below for it to accept)
ReplyDeleteAll comments are set to be approved by me before appearing. Keeps things civil....
A man in your position has always had a hundred eyes burning you. I couldn't imagine being in your shoes the last twenty years or so. Trying to keep everyone happy as well as yourself and ultimately God; must be near impossible. It's funny how time kind of marinates your thoughts or approach to things that are so important to your existence , like your faith and salvation.
ReplyDeleteBryant Carter
a 'big challenge' for me in the last 5 years has been praying 'the l-i-t-t-l-e prayer' to enter salvation. have you ever questioned that? or questioned when a person really 'gets' saved? the bottom line for me is 'what does the Bible say ... what.is.God's.truth?" (p.s. i think God works m.i.g.h.t.i.l.y. in people in their 50's!!!! i am loving it! even though He's shaking things up! i just want real unadulterated HIM!) Sincerely, Diane Poporad Wilhelm
ReplyDeleteGood word!
DeleteDiane, that's something I hope to address in a future blog because I've had the same question. Did you know that nowhere in the Bible does it say anything about "asking Jesus into your heart"?!? And nowhere does it say you have to say a" prayer of salvation"?!?! Things that make you go, "hmmm..."
ReplyDeleteThat's right!
DeleteDeloy, Growing older has a way of allowing life to be seen in "grays", doesn't it? I find myself thinking along the lines that you are talking about....questioning is how you put it. The topics you mention in your initial post that you want to cover carry lots of questions, especially in the light of our evangelical Christian faith. I am with Diane in wanting to continue know God's truth and have an honest relationship with Him as well as those around me. I look forward to this forum. I'm not very skilled at defending positions or arguing positions, but I am good at being honest! Thanks for starting this conversation Deloy =) ~Teri Hogoboom
ReplyDeleteyes.... hmmm. this morning i was telling bill (my husband) that sometime i think the only thing i know is the I am saved. diane
ReplyDeleteWell, Prayer in school, I don't know. Here we go. The problem is not that we don't have prayer in school but that we have a Federal Government (FG) in our schools. The point of the first amendment was that the FG has no opinion about religion. It should not limit or promote. Everyone thinks that we should not have prayer anywhere and when someone prays it becomes about others instead of being an act of personal freedom. It is one thing for a pastor to demand that a school do something. It is another thing for a citizen who is part of the school to do something. A teacher should no more require a Buddhist student to pray a christian prayer than to prohibit a Christian student from presenting a project about their faith. Neither should a Buddhist student be prohibited from demonstrating their faith even though others will be exposed to it. Freedom doesn't mean ignorance. It means freedom. If the student council president opts to pray before meetings and the student leadership doesn't object, why should the FG employee prohibit them. The Student Council President was elected and has the right to lead in their way. We've had to deal with elected leaders all our lives, even before who have not acted with 100% support of the electorate. I agree that Principals and teachers should not dictate the religious activities of students but students are not FG employees, they are citizens. It is interesting in Matthew 5 that Jesus said, “Let your light so shine before men that they might see your good works and glorify your Father who is in Heaven.” Thus, live your faith publicly. Yet in Matthew 6 He focuses on being careful not to live your faith for personal recognition. To celebrate freedom and then question the motives of individuals when they live free begs the question of closed mindedness. One player might pray after a touchdown out of genuine thankfulness for safety, strength, and honor. Another might do it to be seen by men. The first may do it because there were people who always put them down and said they wouldn’t amount to anything and the other may do it to curry favor. Who’s the judge? Whether either one prays privately or publicly is an act of freedom. Some may say, “then your kids are going to be exposed to Buddhist, Muslims, Hindus, Wiccans, etc. practicing their faith?” Yep. That is the world we live in. When did parents surrender the responsibility of teaching their children about faith and life? The problem is that Americans are not free. Americans don’t know how to have a dialogue with others demonstrating respect for them. Americans have surrendered to the FG because of the $$ and now we have to swallow whatever they dictate.
ReplyDeleteI know I probably just lit a match but my friend you wanted feedback. I generally agree with you. But to say that the captain of the team or the class president can’t live out their faith freely is to say that you can’t have faith at school. Students don’t work for the government the government works for them. If the government was worried more about education and less about students religion, things would probably be much better. (Please pardon my English, it is my first language.)
Alright RO1985, I have to stand up to a few of your assertions.
ReplyDelete1) Our schools are influenced by not only the FG, but also the State and Local governments (SG and LG) as well. And the 14th Amendment puts the same restrictions on the SG and LG as the 1st Amendment put on the FG. But this discussion doesn’t have anything to do with blaming any of our governmental authorities for their interpretation of the Amendments. It has to do with my interpretation of the Amendments. You can try to make the government the “bad guy” here, but you’re preaching in the wrong blog.
2) My discussion has nothing to do with prohibiting expressions of religion, such as school projects, etc. Lumping those topics into my assertion about public school prayer is similar to tactics our politicians and right/left wingers use to cloud discussion. Stay on topic preacher boy!
3) Our children are required to receive an education. Those of us that choose to use the public school system for that required education should not be confronted with any public religious practice on the school grounds or school-sponsored activities. If it is a student-led extra curricula activity that is an altogether different game. Students choose to come to those. That’s comparing apples to oranges.
4) If a Student Council is a school sanctioned/sponsored organization, my opinion is that the line gets blurry. If the Student Council operates without the oversight and direct supervision of the school faculty, and the students agree to begin their own meetings with prayer, then so be it. However, should several of those students have other beliefs, such as Mormonism or even Islam, would you be ok with your child being led in “spiritual freedom” by one of them? You’d have to be, with your argument. You can’t have freedom for one and not freedom for all.
5) It sounds like you’re reading into Scripture what you want to hear. Matthew 6 says PRAY privately. It is very specific. Matthew 5 says LIVE so that your light shines. Seems that the “religious freedom-ers” get this all backwards: they tend to PRAY so that everyone can see it, and LIVE their Christianity privately. It’s funny how we so easily gloss over the specifics of Scripture to “win” arguments and discussions. (I say this to simply point out that one of the discrepancies of the church and church leaders today that I have found so confounding and frustrating and hindering of the influence of Believers is that they pick and choose which Scriptures they want to believe specifically, and which ones they want to believe in a broader sense.)
ReplyDelete6) I celebrate the freedom of any football player to “Tebow”, because that is a private act that does not require everyone to stop and join along with them. I never said or implied otherwise, therefore your whole diatribe about that is mute. However, I do question if God gives a rip about our success at sporting events!! That’s asinine! And since you brought it up, I do believe it is more often than not for show. And I don’t believe that is “letting your light shine”. That is simply bringing attention to you and your beliefs. Again, FOR SHOW.
7) Yes, it is a matter of freedom whether anyone prays privately or publically. Again, you are creating an argument out of something I never said. If you want to pray publically anywhere in the USA where people are free to not be a part, go for it. But I am strictly talking about public prayer in a public school. If you want to pray in a public school where others have no choice whether to listen or partake, then you’re wrong. You don’t have the freedom to do that. Our freedoms are limited by our laws…by our Constitution…by the Amendments…in order that ALL may experience the same freedoms.
8) “To say that the captain of the team or the class president can’t live out their faith freely…” was never said by me. Again, you create something out of nothing. Whether a student prays publically or not has nothing to do with them living their faith out. You’re basically saying that if a student doesn’t pray publically they’re not living out their faith. You’re wrong again. Jesus said just the opposite. In Matthew 6 He basically said that your prayers are for you and God, not for the benefit of everyone else. I believe that if you feel you must pray publically so that others must hear you in order to “live out your faith”, then your prayers are the prayers of a self-righteous Pharisee.
So there, Randall
Just now finding your blog through a post on facebook. Looking forward to reading your journey, as I myself have been on one since my divorce. I began to question many things about the church (not my faith). I haven't gone back to church and don't know if I can. I feel many of the teachings are corrupted by political views and what people feel is right, not necessarily what the bible actually says. I like to see what others think. Many disagree with how I view things now, but I believe my beliefs are biblical.
ReplyDeleteBrandy Moore